But it was still nothing to Wally and he easily moved out of the way, grabbing her wrist, and spun her into the post of her tent, almost making it fall on their heads.

Raven righted herself and turned to look at him in amazement.

Then she lit up her hand with magical fire and shot it at them.

Shine reached out her sword, and deflected the fire...it fizzled out like nothing.

"Do we have your attention?" she asked.

Raven stepped back. "Did you come here to get the powers?" she asked warily.

"No, magic is antithetical to us," Shine shrugged. "It would only hurt us to try to do that. And besides, we don't kill. I'm sure you have a hard time believing that, but Oscar is no murderer. We came her to ask you to reconsider your neutral position in all this."

"Then you're crazy," Raven said. "Because I'm done. Salem is undefeatable. End of story. You think I'm going to throw my life away for some meaningless battle? You're as stupid as Qrow is."

"It might surprise you to know, your brother is no longer as ignorant as he was the last time you met," Shine said. "I believe he may better understand your position now...just not the part where you stabbed him in the back."

"So he finally found out, huh," Raven said. "I take it the lamp really did do it. Let me guess, he's drinking himself into a stupor and wondering why he ever was blind enough to follow Ozpin at all."

"What a way to talk about your family," Wally shook his head.

"Qrow is no longer any family of mine," Raven said.

"Is Yang?" Shine asked.

Raven paused. "How did Yang take it?"

"She reacted exactly the way you did," Shine said. "Except for one thing: she didn't ditch everyone."

Raven bit her lip. "Then she's a fool. She still wants to obey Ozpin, even after knowing he's a liar?"

"She desires to protect her family," Shine said. "I've met few girls as headstrong and annoying as your daughter, and I have the feeling Ozpin would have said the same thing about you when you were his student...but I'll give her this much, she doesn't quit easy. She's also got quite the attitude, thanks for that by the way. Still, she protected you, as little as you know you deserve it." She folded her arms. "But I am not here to judge you. You did what you did because you thought it was the only thing to do."

Raven glanced at her warily. "But you still want me to help."

"Because there's something you didn't know," Shine said. "You didn't know, that there is a way to defeat Salem."

Pause.

"What is it?" Raven asked.

"It's complicated," Shine said.

"You mean the relics?" Raven said. "That won't work."

"I mean no such thing, though I think even that might work for all you people would care about," Shine shrugged. "But there is another way. There are things that can be done that even Salem cannot do. Now I   want to be diplomatic about this Raven, because I know you're a clever person, and you would never take anything we say at face value."

Raven shrugged. "True enough. But don't expect me to listen to you just because you said that."

"I didn't think so," Shine said. "But let me put the question to you: Suppose we could prove that things that you would have sworn were impossible are possible? Without Salem, without the gods, and without the relics? That grimm can be defeated without the use of dust or weapons or even silver eyes, and that there are things you don't know about still, would you consider our proposal?"

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