Winter didn't actually go to bed at all. She stayed out on the wall all night--which was only about 6 hours anyway after the conversation.
The boys got back from having their fun, mostly in a good mood, except for Mercury, who seemed testier than usual.
Qrow and Tai, while not upbeat, were at least less stressed after having to focus on something else for a while.
Tai said it was a good idea.
The girls told them all that they'd had fun, but that Shine and Winter had seemed upset and gone off at some point.
Wally was surprised and went to check on Shine. He wasn't surprised when she told him what was bothering her, but they talked it out till she felt better.
Pyrrha and Emerald found her asleep, they thought, when they came up.
But Winter never did come in, though no one knew it till Raven mentioned it around dawn when some of them were up again already.
"She didn't come back?" Hazel said. "And no one thought to check?"
"I didn't even know she was missing till I woke up," Raven said. She was not in a good mood. "I supposed she was working, but now you're saying she just disappeared?"
"Why would anyone let that happen?" Qrow was mad.
"Let's not jump to conclusions," Ozpin spoke, through Oscar. "Perhaps she is working."
"Do you mean the lieutenant lady?" Velvet walked in, with Coco, looking sleepy. "Fox said he saw her head up to the high wall. There's a door that leads up there. You can look at the whole kingdom."
"We know that," Raven said testily. "Is she still there?"
"We don't know." Coco didn't like Raven much. "Go see for yourself."
Raven didn't care that much.
"I'll go," Qrow said. "And if she's not there, someone is going to be in for it down here. If she is there, I'm going to kill her. Of all people who should know better than to not report in like that..."
He left.
"Someone's getting a little too invested," Raven remarked dryly.
* * *
Winter didn't even realize how long she'd been outside till she saw the sun peeking over the horizon.
"What?" She looked at her scroll--which was almost dead. "It's been 6 hours?"
She was so lost in thought it had felt like 2 at most.
Well, no one would be up yet except perhaps some of the more battle hardened who never slept that long, so no need to worry about looking bad--she hoped.
But that hope was short lived because Qrow appeared from the doorway.
Winter didn't see him right off. She was trying to check messages just in case someone had texted her, but so far nothing.
Oh, wait, there was one from Raven asking if she'd died...
"Schnee!" Qrow scared her by saying sternly.
Winter almost dropped her scroll--for a second there he sounded just like Ironwood, too.
"Qrow?!" She was angry.
"Where have you been?" Qrow was mad. "Raven said you disappeared."
Raven noticing in the first place was a surprise, Winter thought to herself.
"I just went for a walk," she said, crossly. "Was there any reason to startle me like that?"
"We literally just had a Maiden kidnapped, and you think it's a good idea not to report in for hours?" Qrow said.
Dang it...that was a good point.
"I apologize then," Winter said much more meekly. "It slipped my mind. I lost track of time."
Not the most pleasant thing to admit--but better than just saying she could not be bothered to report in. How disgraceful.
She thought that would be the end of it, but it wasn't.
"And what were you doing that was that engrossing, your hair?" Qrow was still not appeased and was also sure that there was no way Winter would have forgotten to report if things were normal.
Winter had completely forgotten that she'd participated in that "frivolous activity" and put a hand to her hair. Why hadn't she put it back?! This looked so unprofessional!
But it was no time to show it, so she replied stiffly, "Nothing."
Silence.
"Then don't explain." Qrow was still mad. "Just don't go silent again."
"You're one to talk!" Winter snapped. Being tired wasn't making it easy to keep her temper.
"It's different when there was a crisis just 24 hours ago," Qrow argued.
That was also a good point--unfortunately.
Winter sighed and walked to the edge of the wall again so she wouldn't strangle him.
But this just brought the conversation memory back in full force.
"Something is eating you." Qrow didn't miss this unusual behavior. "Don't know what we missed between last night and now, but something. Maybe Likstar knows--"
That got a reaction.
"Leave her out of this!" Winter said sharply.
Qrow gave her a blank look.
Right...blurting that out without explanation made no sense at all.
[Anyone else wonder if Winter and Weiss' constant over analysis of their own words is an anxiety induced habit caused by a strict upbringing/military etiquette?]
Winter hated it, but now she was going to have to explain or else this looked really bad.
Composing herself as best as she could, she said, "Miss Likstar and I had a...puzzling conversation last night. I was thinking it over. I wasn't tired. That's all. Don't bother about it. She'd only blame herself for causing a scare. It's my fault for not checking the time."
There, that should do it.
"What did you talk about?" Qrow wanted to know.
Winter should have seen that coming. "None of your business."
"It was bad enough to keep you out here for that long, and it's classified?" Qrow said. "Must have been pretty bad then. Fine, have it your way."
He didn't mean that. She was starting to scare him... Qrow had enough negative scenarios in his head at any given time for this to be setting him off.
"It wasn't classified, it was...personal." Winter paused. But was it really? Shine hadn't said it was...
The whole thing was still so strange.
She sighed. "Miss Likstar said some very odd things. When I asked her to explain, she said even more odd things... Typical of her, I know. But I asked her if she intended to depart from us...her and her partner...and she did not give a clear answer. She didn't say yes, but she seemed to feel there is some insufficiency in our understanding... She said she'd explain more today."
Hopefully that meant in a few more hours it wouldn't matter who knew.
Qrow didn't anticipate that, but he didn't like it. "Something happened to upset them then?" he said. "Was it how we handled the kidnapping? Because I thought we worked that out finally."
"I don't know!" Winter snapped.
Pause.
"And she didn't give any hints?"
"Nothing other than that we may not be on the same page," Winter said. "Something about petty differences, but it was so frustratingly vague, as usual."
"That's her specialty." Qrow had to get that off his chest. "But now of all times... This is not a good time to just dip."
Winter's thoughts exactly.
"Why did you stay out here?" Qrow asked. "You should have told us this right away."
"What good would that have done?" Winter said.
"Well...don't know, but we'd all like to know if they're thinking of leaving," Qrow said.
"That is not exactly what she said," Winter corrected. "It just was not answered."
"And that definitely means yes." Qrow was not one to be optimistic about this. "I can't believe those two. All this work and they pick now to think about quitting."
"I'm almost surprised you're opposed to the idea." Winter detected that Qrow's reaction was not quite pure frustration. "I thought you didn't care for their methods."
"Well, they worked." Qrow was sullen about it, but it was true. "That's something. That crazy plan actually worked--first time we've gotten real results. I thought they'd be more upbeat."
"This is getting us nowhere," Winter decided. "If they wanted to explain now, then they will. Perhaps they were just waiting for everyone to be here. I'm going to go ask."
"I'm asking, then," Qrow said.
* * *
About 10 minutes later, all the adults in the team had heard that something important was being discussed--and most of the kids were either up or getting up because they'd been told to.
Shine and Wally were not expecting everyone to be waiting for them when they finally joined the team for breakfast...but they were.
And one look and even Wally, who was less attentive to facial expressions, knew they all knew.
"Winter must have talked," he said to Shine.
"I guess I never told her not to," Shine mused. "Oops."
Oscar looked nervous. "Guys," he said, "it's...not that I want to rush you, but is this when we're going to talk about that thing?"
He still didn't know how he felt about it.
"What is Pine referring to?" Raven asked.
"Yeah." Yang crossed her arms. "I thought we were done with the drama for a while, but you've been acting weird since yesterday."
"Did we upset you?" Pyrrha asked.
"What does Oscar know about that we don't?" Ren wondered.
"First of all, it's not anything like what you think." Shine held up her hand. "You guys did not do anything, let's settle that. But Wally and I have been talking the last two days, planning and going over things. And we have come to agree that things cannot go on this way without laying more cards on the table."
Wally rubbed his head. "Not that I really wanted to do this," he said, "not when things were settling down, but we don't have much of a choice. Salem will be here at any time, and it's not like we can argue about something important once that happens."
"What is this about?" Qrow said. This was torture. "What are you so worked up over?"
"It's just that," Shine said. "Salem. I thought we had specified about this before, but I'm not sure you've ever fully understood what we meant... The truth of the matter is, there is a reason that I'm not interested in chasing the Summer Maiden around."
Mercury leaned in for that part.
Everyone waited.
Wally took Shine's hand and nodded at her, then he said, "The thing is, Shine and I kind of realized that, as DJs, chasing around magical items isn't what we're supposed to do. It's forbidden, apparently, for us to use magic like that."
"I don't like to even touch it," Shine shivered.
"And it didn't seem like a problem, until we realized that you guys are really still after that Relic," Wally said, "and the Maidens, and all that stuff mixed up around Ozpin's magic. And...we...just...we can't do that."
Blank looks.
"We won't," Shine said more firmly. "It's nothing against the Maidens themselves, but our powers are not compatible. You all must have realized by now that this is true--the blocking, the shadowing, the conflict. Some of it can't be helped, but there will be no mixing of those powers. They are at war with each other, not unlike the Silver Eyes being at war with anything of the god of darkness...but with us, it's both gods. The thing is, when you're from one god, you cannot serve any other god or partake in their...powers. It's disloyal. No one can serve two masters. That said, Wally and I could never use those Relics without being disloyal, and I didn't like even coming as close as I did in Atlas. It felt wrong. I've ask God to forgive me for any error there, but it can't happen again."
"I never got close," Wally said, "but I have to agree, now that I've thought about it, that it doesn't make any sense for us to try to play both sides like that. It's no good saying we don't believe in those gods and then using their magic."
Pyrrha and Jaune exchanged a look.
Winter looked somber enough.
Most of the others looked confused.
"But you don't have to work for those gods just because you use the Relics," Ruby said.
"You see, the fact that you think that is the problem," Shine said, sounding a bit more upset. "You think there is truly a difference there. But there isn't. I've been saying since we got here that these curses and spells are all things that show the gods' influence is still in your lives. I daresay Ozpin and Salem themselves would admit that much. The rest of you can ignore them, but they can't. And the Relics aren't any different. I also don't quite like that each of them is a bound spirit... I mean, what did they used to be? They're enslaved now--that hardly seems right to me. I'm sorry if you don't like to hear this, but we don't really care for your gods, and because of that, we aren't going to help you obey them."
This last part was what got to Ozpin more. Oscar could feel him gasping.
Wally nodded.
"We understand that this is going to be a problem for you," Shine said slowly. "Because you all mostly still want to use those things. And in fact, why would we expect any different? We are new here--it would seem careless to take our word for it alone, and with a few signs, and throw away thousands of years of relying on those things. Even if it had never once worked. But I won't be swayed either. Nothing could induce me to abandon my God. I don't know how loyal any of you feel to yours, but there it is."
"No one said you had to leave yours," Yang said.
"Yeah, we never said that," Blake said.
"We respect your faith," Weiss said.
"But if you were here to help us--" Ruby was confused. "--then wouldn't you have to work with us to stop Salem?"
"I'm not interested in stopping Salem using those Relics," Shine said. "If we were to somehow do it, it would be our way. Which is not even our way, really. Again, I'm sorry, but it's life or death for us. We do not compromise on this point. We never should have led you to believe we could, if we did, and I apologize for that. I had thought our disdain for the gods would have been enough to show it, but then, some things you need to be direct about. The point is, we have to tell you this now, because otherwise we are never going to agree on what to do, ever, if and when Salem attacks."
"And...as much as we hate to say it," Wally said, "but if it comes to that, maybe we shouldn't be here. It would probably just be a distraction..."
The others glanced at each other again.
"Not that we want to leave," Shine said. "But we have to...give you leave to choose that. If you do not want our leadership--which I would understand after hearing this--then we won't lead you. But there is no doing what we came here to do if we have no authority. Not all of you need to decide the same thing, though. Anyone who does not feel they need to be a part of this fight and would prefer to stay with us, you can. But it is your choice. Don't feel you have to. I just don't want to leave anyone behind who may truly have wanted something else. So it's up to you. We wanted you to have time to think about it and to rest, so we didn't bring it up yesterday...but since we don't know how much time we have, it can't be put off."
["Hometown"--21 Pilots.]
There was another long pause.
"So you're abandoning us?" Yang said.
"Quiet, Yang," Raven said firmly.
"What?" Yang glanced at her.
"They are not doing that." Raven understood perfectly, for once. "But they cannot live a lie. If we do not trust them, after all this time, what is the point of them being here?" She crossed her arms. "But if you two go, I'm going with you."
"You are?" Wally said.
"I have no reason to stay here," Raven said. "Salem is going to hunt me anyway. I think my chances of survival are better with you than with this group. And I have no interest in working for Ozpin anyway."
Hazel glanced at her with something like respect.
"But if you stay, then I'll stay," Raven surprisingly added, "since it's crazy to leave then. I suppose I can't influence the rest of you, given your opinion of me." She frowned at them. "But that's what I'd do."
Well...for Raven, that was pretty non-incendiary.
"What do you expect us to do with this?" Qrow said. "There is no winning side for us. I mean, you want us to just forget about the Relics and the Maidens?"
"No," Shine said. "The Maidens are people, and, thus far, we can help them...but using the Relics...at least using them ourselves, would be off the table. Anything you do there could be up to you. But again, since my plans do not revolve around them, I suppose I could not be in charge."
"Well, that's not really a pr--" Yang began.
"Shut up," at least three people said.
She stopped, surprised and angry.
"Sorry to put you guys in this position," Wally said, "but it's just not up to us. We don't make the rules."
"And there is no way to make an exception to them?" Torchwick, who was there, asked.
Up till then Shine had been sad, but that was the one thing that made her angry.
"You have no idea what you're speaking of," she exploded, raising her voice slightly. "Do you think these rules exist just to limit our fun? They are here to protect us. Breaking them is not just something we'll get sent to prison for--in fact, I'd prefer that to the consequences. Once you compromise with powers that aren't your own, they become a part of you and they twist everything else inside you. What we are, who we are, it would be eaten away. And if that wasn't enough reason, it's disgustingly ungrateful to our Savior, who has gone to great lengths to free us from darkness, to ever turn our backs on him. Do not ever suggest that to me again."
Those words made everyone go silent.
She was serious, clearly.
Winter almost had to admire it. Shine was unwavering about her conviction, and that was normally something that she'd hold in high esteem...but was it the end of this arrangement?
She'd been afraid of this, but not for this reason, and it did, she knew, complicate things. Shine hadn't been worried for nothing; not everyone on their team was going to like this.
But what did she think? She wasn't sure... She'd hardly even thought about it. Really, using the Relic had seldom entered her mind since they got here, because they didn't have the Maiden anyway. She hadn't been planning anything around it...but if they had gotten it, she'd have agreed to using it, right? So...
"What does Ozpin have to say about this?" Hazel spoke up.
Hazel didn't care at all if Ozpin told him to do something--he was only asking because he was surprised Ozpin wasn't doing anything to stop this conversation.
Oscar gripped his cane. "Oz and I were told about this already," he said, "just sort of by accident, I think... I don't think he really wants to not use the Relics, but he's...not going to stop me if I don't. And I wasn't planning to use them myself anyway, because of the curse. But you guys doing it...I couldn't just make you go along with it because I think it isn't right. I'm not sure my opinion should count."
"No, it counts," Ruby argued. "But you're one person... I mean, we can't just let one person decide this--we all should."
"It won't affect some of us anyway," Emerald spoke up. "But some of you, it will. Could be life or death."
"Not even just that," Qrow said. "Even if for one second we didn't care about those d--- Relics, Salem does. She won't let us just ignore them."
"I don't know exactly what will happen," Shine said. "But I know one thing--that very often, the answer to our problem only comes when we have chosen to do what is right already. The Lord expects faith from us first, faith to believe that He will assist us if we do what is right. Relying on these gods would show a lack of faith, Wally and I. Not all of you have that faith. But I can assure you that there is always a way out if something should be avoided at all costs. Do not feel like you have no choice."
They exchanged glances again.
"I guess you guys will want to talk about this," Wally said. "Should we step out?"
Just like they had before...when the team had decided whether or not to follow their leadership that time... Was that really only a couple weeks ago?
[Not even that, I think.]
They both stepped out.
[To anyone who is wondering why this is such a central conflict, if the analogy of gods does not work for you, then think of it also as a problem of policies. At some point you have to pick a side. You can't be both if they are diametrically opposed to each other.
Most of us don't realize how much this affects our everyday life, but when we do, it's never an easy choice, is it?]
* * *
Oscar listened to the others talk for a few minutes, not sure he should say anything.
Actually fewer people than he thought were really supporting just asking Shine and Wally to leave.
Yang was more of the mind that they just shouldn't be in charge.
But then Pyrrha pointed out that no one else had had a working strategy for a while, and while they could try, it didn't seem any of them had Shine's attention to detail.
Ren asked why they couldn't just have her check their plans for weaknesses then, but let them make the final call.
Jaune said that that wasn't fair, that it was just using them, and they wouldn't like it.
"Uncle Qrow, what do you think?" Ruby finally said.
Qrow was surprised to be asked at all.
"You have had a lot of disagreements with them," Jaune explained.
Qrow looked uncomfortable...and it didn't help that Winter was looking at him like, "Do not say the wrong thing."
"Look," he said, "I haven't been making any of the decisions in the group since Argus. I have no idea what to do. The Relics were always important to us... If we could win without them, I wouldn't really care. But if we can't, then those two can't really expect us to just bend over on this. "
"If we could avoid using the Relics, you'd accept it?" Winter spoke up.
"I mean...they're kind of nothing but trouble for the most part," Qrow said. "For all they've helped us, they cost us more in the long run. I don't want Salem to have them, but like I said, if we didn't need them, I wouldn't care."
That take was a little odd for one of Ozpin's lieutenants...but maybe Qrow had done some thinking in the last couple of weeks.
"Winter, you can't really think that we should just forget about the Relics," Weiss said. "I mean...we lost two of them already."
"And how do we win this without them?" Ren said. "We'd need them to summon the gods, if we ever succeed at uniting mankind. And we'd need a Vault to hold them. And we need that Maiden so that she doesn't open the Vault."
"Perhaps if we agree to this, we'd find another solution," Pyrrha offered, "just as they said."
"Or it's crazy," Nora said.
"Face it, not all of us are going to agree," Blake said. "I think we'd better just decide who should be the deciding vote."
Pause.
Well, she had a point.
"We've been split into groups this whole time," Winter noted. "I think we can guess what everyone will say. So who decides whose opinion matters more?"
"We could go by team leaders," Jaune said.
"Some of us aren't on a team," Hazel said firmly.
"What did you think?" Oscar asked him. "I mean...you've worked for Salem, so..."
"I think that she'd do anything to get those Relics," Hazel said. "I don't really care about them myself. And if it was possible to defeat her without them, I wouldn't care about that either. But I don't see it. Have they been able to make good on their word before?"
"Well, I'm alive," Pyrrha said.
Neo pointed to Torchwick.
"He's alive," Pyrrha agreed.
"We got Oscar back," Jaune said. "I mean, that wasn't just Shine's idea, but she okayed how we did it."
"She also made sure we allowed all of them to join us." Pyrrha nodded at the criminals. "And because of that, we rescued more people and got more intel."
"And Yang and I really wouldn't have been rescued without that plan," Raven said. "Off handedly, I'd say Kanap would have been ready for anyone else."
"No one else has been able to control Watts," Winter mused, "not even the General--scratch that, especially the General."
Qrow smirked at that.
"But none of that is on the level of defeating Salem without magic," Yang said.
"Magic doesn't seem to affect them much," Oscar said. "Maybe they could."
"If they wanted to," Pyrrha mused.
"But if they let the Relics go, Salem could get them before we ever have a chance to defeat her anyway," Ren said. "And then it's over."
"Are we sure it's over then?" Jaune mused. "I mean...the gods showing up...we could talk to them... Who says Salem gets the final say?"
"Salem would kill you all first so that wouldn't happen," Hazel said.
"What if they could stop that?" Emerald said. "I mean, it's possible..."
"But that's all 'what if?'" Yang said. "We need a guarantee."
"Frankly, Yang, we don't have that either way," Qrow said.
Yang shot him a weird look. "I didn't think you were on their side before."
"He doesn't have to be on their side to see we're doomed if their idea doesn't work," Raven said. "Do you really all think Ozpin has never thought of any of this over time? Come on, Salem can't be killed. She cannot be reasoned with. The only chance any of you have is them."
"Considering how cynical you are," Winter said to her, "I would begin to think, if you're saying that, it's true."
Raven smiled slightly for the first time--though she was surprised.
"But we're still not deciding," Pyrrha said.
"Their plans work," Ruby said. "We've seen that. So far their aid has worked okay too. So...look, I'm okay with trusting their judgment on this and not bothering to get the Sword. We can't anyway without Vara, and she's...gone. So..."
Pyrrha winced. "Um...about that."
Everyone looked at her.
"I can't...say exactly--" Pyrrha didn't want to go into the whole thing. "--but I was given reason to think that Vara might consider passing her power on to someone else if things don't improve."
"And who gave you that impression?" Winter asked sharply.
"I had a message from her," Pyrrha said. "We met...once, by accident. I guess she remembered me."
"And who did she have in mind?" Qrow asked.
"One of us," Pyrrha said. This was true. "If there was no other solution."
"And you're just mentioning this now?" Yang said.
"I was going to mention it, but this conversation came up first," Pyrrha said. "But it's not fair to not let you know it, if we're considering not bothering with the Relic. I'm not so sure she'd agree to it, but she might if we had a better option. I'm willing to try what they say and forget magic, but that's me."
Qrow gave Pyrrha a long look. He suspected Vara already had one person in particular in mind, if she contacted Pyrrha.
But he didn't want to say that if Pyrrha didn't want to, so he just said, "Well, that doesn't help us then. We still have to decide."
"If you think about it, this mess with the Relic is why Theo is working against us at all," Winter said, "and trying to protect Vacuo. It's a pity we can't just move the thing somewhere else and forget about it."
"Could we do that?" Raven wondered. "The Vault at Haven is still intact, and it's empty... We could move it. Does it matter which Vault has which?"
"Not really," Ozpin answered. "But it would mess up my system."
"He says no," Oscar said.
"But you'd still be in trouble," Pyrrha said.
"I am anyway," Raven said. "But if we're worried about Vara being a weak link here, why not just remove her from the chain? At least then she couldn't sell us out."
"And give you more responsibility?" Winter said. "Are you sure you want that?"
"No, but again, I have no choice now," Raven frowned. "Putting it back in the Vault wouldn't do much more than anything else I've done. What does it matter to you?"
Winter supposed it didn't. It was just strange.
"That still means we'd need Vara," Pyrrha said. "But only briefly...and then we could just not worry about it for a while?"
Mercury, who'd mostly been forgotten about by the others, was looking grim right about then.
"Do you think they'd accept that?" Ruby asked.
"I think so," Jaune said. "It's not using it, it's just moving it. They seemed okay with that."
"Then is everyone okay with that?" Weiss said. "Because it's not guaranteeing we'll never use it, just that we won't for now."
"We have no use for the Sword now anyway," Winter mused. "We have nothing to destroy."
"We could just decide to move it without using it," Blake said, "since using it might be dangerous here anyway, and then, if in the end we decided to use them, they can walk. If they want to. But for now, we can still plan around the Relics. Would that be okay?"
"I don't see a problem with it," Ruby said.
"I don't want them to feel we're working against them," Pyrrha said, "so, for the record, even if you all came to that, I think I would still not participate."
"Fair enough," Winter said. "But for now, we can all agree to forego using the Relics and focus on moving it instead?"
Even Raven shrugged. She didn't really want to use the Sword either.
"Sure. That wasn't as hard as I thought it would be," Oscar said.
"Because it's not a full turnabout," Ozpin said. "But if it satisfies them for now, I suppose that's all that matters."
Shine and Wally were called back in and presented with this compromise.
They whispered about it to each other.
Shine finally turned to them.
"Since it's not requiring us to do anything, we think we can accept it," she said. "But, so you know, nothing changes if you all change your minds."
"We're aware," Winter said.
"Then for now, I guess things go on this way," Shine said. "But the Relic will have to be moved as soon as possible if this is going to work, or Salem will be here."
She was more right than she knew, Mercury thought.
"Then we should focus on that part," Winter said, with evident relief.
"Yay!" Wally said. "Go team! I'm glad we got that worked out."