What's up everyone it's Mario and Sonic fanboy and today we're going to be doing debunking claims about Madara VS Aizen that most people, usually Naruto fans, would make try to explain why Madara beats Aizen, this is also going to be a follow up of my Madara VS Aizen prebunk I made previous. Which is confirmed to be the upcoming Death Battle for season 8 as shown here.
For those of you who don't know I'm doing I did a prebunk on Madara VS Aizen essentially predicting what I think their going to do and how they I'll portray the fight and why I do think their going to make Madara win while at the same time lowballing Aizen. So make sure you check out the first part it's really important because this is a follow up, where we debunk claims made by fans, especially Naruto fans like we got them saying that Aizen can't touch Madara, outstats, speed blitz, Someone even said that Aizen is a COUNTRY BUSTER.
Which if you're a Bleach fan like Bleach-Grimmjow you would know that this is completely disrespectful to Aizen as well as other Bleach characters. Like I don't wanna call people names like fanboy, lair, salty, dishonest, etc but there's no way on this Earth that you actually read the Bleach manga or watched the anime and come to a conclusion that Aizen is only country level. Like you can't tell me that you actually seen Bleach if you think Aizen is merely only country level. I'm convinced that you know nothing about Bleach and that the only time you've heard or seen Bleach is when ScrewAttack made their own Naruto VS Ichigo and just blindly agree with them without doing your own research, because you're a goddamn liar, you have not seen Bleach at all you just happen to hear about it because of Death Battle. And you can tell that's where he got country when ScrewAttack did that whole 400 teraton feat with that Vasta Lorde feat and "highballed" it to 400 petatons of TNT, so clearly he has never EVER heard of Bleach before in his life outside of Death Battle. And he's not the only one to thing this there are thousands possibly millions of Naruto fans who think this way which is why we're going to be debunking their claims. So let's begin.
1. Argument of Inertia fallacy
One thing that Naruto fans and Death Battle defenders will use is the argument of inertia fallacy we'll get into that later but first let me explain why it's important and where I got it from. In my first part of the prebunk I did say that I learned this prebunk tactic form Sir Splash (aka Your Favorite Villain) from how Red Hood VS Winter Solider video prior to the official Death Battle's release.
Now some can argue that this is assuming but assuming means jack shit I don't care if you call it assuming at least that is still me predicting and being prepared. So basically a inertia fallacy is if a person puts in a lot of work into an argument they feel like they have to stick with it, and refuse to change the argument or switch stances despite the argument being disproven which within itself makes no sense so that's something that not only would be an issue for the Death Battle but also an issue for the people who defend Death Battle. Like Naruto fans actually think that because Naruto beat Ichigo, than that means Madara beats Aizen..... This is actually something people especially fans of Naruto will say, and they will use Death Battle as a source without even fact checking them. Which is stupid and yes I've seen several people do this before and those are the people I've beaten they just say "Oh Death Battle said Naruto beats Ichigo so Madara beats Aizen." Speaking to of Death Battle I can already see them making Madara win from a mile away because they will use the inertia fallacy and use the same prior arguments to (hilariously) low ball Aizen. Which leads to my next point.
2. Highballing Madara's hax and lowballing Aizen's hax
People thing that Madara's hax will give him an edge over Aizen but it really doesn't, they just underestimated Bleach, especially people who defend Naruto VS Ichigo, previous I said that Death Battle will treat chakra and reishi like the same thing like they did Naruto VS Ichigo, like because they both have spiritual energy despite completely different uses, I agree that Naruto can see through Ichigo's invisible ability, but they tried to lowball it and say that Ichigo is still physically present in normal realm and can be touched, send, and heard by normal people.
As shown by the picture here this was evident that Death Battle and their defenders use to conclude that Ichigo's invisibility doesn't matter and tried to get away with it which was gross, which shows us that they didn't watch nor read Bleach because the official Viz Media translation completely says otherwise.
So you can tell the difference between what Death Battle showed and what I showed is that ScrewAttack clearly didn't enough research here (Bleach-Grimmjow said the exact same thing as the YouTuber who showed the Viz Media said as he actually owns the Bleach manga) So I do think that this will play an important role when they do Madara VS Aizen they'll say Aizen's invisibility wouldn't matter as he has no counter against Limbo Clones when actually he has a counter against something like this even as a Lieutenant.
So in this photo here it shows Aizen inside an invisible barrier that's being ripped open by Shinji so even though the Limbo Clones are inside another existence entirely Aizen can still use this Kido to see them, plus most Shinigami who Aizen scales above all of their fights are them being invisible so Limbo Clones are nothing new to Aizen. And because Aizen's Reiatsu can cover an entire area there's no way the Limbo Clones can reach him. Oh and because they are going to treat chakra and reishi/reiatsu as the same thing, I STRONGLY believe that they will say that Madara will absorb all of Aizen's Kido with his Rinnegan, which is something people especially Naruto fans try to use and get away with, because chakra focuses on physical and spiritual energy, but that doesn't matter at the end of the day it's just chakra and I highly doubt it would work on almost anything who doesn't have chakra, so according to that logic that means Sasuke can use his Rinnegan to absorb several attacks from Hiei because Hiei has spiritual energy (and yes it does exist in Yu Yu Hakusho), when in reality even though Sasuke should've clapped Hiei in that Death Battle one thing that they did get right is that Hiei HAS no chakra, therefore Sasuke can't absorb anything Hiei throws at him because he doesn't have chakra, this was something Death Battle said themselves in their popup bubble on the to right corner of the screen.
Now this was something I don't get how is it that they treat chakra and spirit energy completely differently in Sasuke VS Hiei yet in Naruto VS Ichigo (and soon Madara VS Aizen) they treat chakra and reishi like it's the same, the same thing goes with Naruto and the Death Battle fans, like I may never understand their logic behind it at all. It should also be noted that Aizen also has his own energy absorbing abilities with Kido so they would counter each other however as I said before Aizen has no chakra and his spirit energy is far superior and different from Madara's. Aizen has more than just reishi in fact all Bleach characters have more than just reishi, there's more to spiritual energy than just reishi, meanwhile Naruto characters all purely have is just chakra that's it, no more no less. So no Madara can't absorb or nullify Aizen's arsenal of spirit energy, as long as Aizen doesn't have chakra, Madara's absorbing powers are useless. Another thing that the fans try to say to lowball Aizen is that they thing that Madara can just instant kill him with the soul hax, first off that is nothing new because if you actually watched Bleach every single fight is a soul based fight so what is that going to Aizen? It's not like it works on spiritual projectors and it work on characters clearly physically exist in a normal realm (which is usually human something Aizen is not), also if you wanna go soul vs soul, the Zanpakuto attacks your soul itself as it literally means soul-cutter sword so Aizen would one shot Madara in that extent, on top of that Aizen's spiritual pressure attacks your soul and very existence itself so unless Madara has a counter to all of that (which he most certainly does not) his soul hax is useless, another thing I have to mention is the Truth Seeking Orbs, people have said that they will destroy Aizen on a molecular level however there some inconsistencies to it yes it's sort of out there that they can however the only proof we have here is people who are reanimated ninja, on top of that Tobirama was able to grab one and give it back to Obito and Minato had the orbs touch his back and didn't have any holes in it whatsoever, also those are more chakra based and because of this Death Battle will treat chakra and reishi the same like they did with Naruto VS Ichigo and therefore they would work on Aizen, first of Aizen is more spiritual and biologically and even if they did hit him Aizen can regenerate from it like we've seen him regenerate from entire explosions and come back like it was nothing and can come back instantly thanks to the chair he's pretty much immortal Central 46 couldn't execute him because they said he was immortal.
Speaking of witch even if Madara could land some massive damage on Aizen with his hax it still wouldn't do anything as Aizen can regenerate, even come back from the dead with his chair state instantly, and we've never seen the Truth Seeking Orbs destroy anything on a spiritual level even if they could, again Aizen can regenerate as stated earlier and since by the war arc the Hogyoku can adapt Aizen into anything making him even more stronger than before, and if Aizen completely adapts to the Rinnegan abilities, ninjutsu, Six Paths powers, Perfect Susanoo, and the Truth Seeking Orbs that would make things even worse for Madara because by than Aizen would already be stronger than everything Madara throws at him because the Hogyoku which has a mind of it's own will continuously adapt Aizen and evolve him into something stronger than Madara in every way. These are all that most people especially Naruto fans will ignore because not everyone has seen Bleach. Now I know you guys might me thinking that Aizen has never been shown to us all the Kido techniques sure but I can say the same thing about Madara who hasn't been shown to use all of his Rinnegan abilities, I say all this because it's implied that they can unfortunately Death Battle will ignore this and the fans will believe them. And I already see you guys typing: "But Mario and Sonic fanboy, Aizen got slapped by Mugetsu and lost and was sealed by Kisuke Urahara! How would he be able to adapt to Madara if he lost to Ichigo?!" Easy, so long story short the Hogyoku like I said has a mind of it's own and once it chooses it's master it will obey that master and give them what they desire they can even grant a wish (though it does take time) even at a distance the Hogyoku still obeyed it's master and it can even read your thoughts and feelings. This is why Aizen kept evolving and getting stronger. The reason why I brought this up is because the only reason why Aizen lost to Ichigo is because he WANTED to lose. Deep down he wanted to lose. It was even stated by Ichigo himself.
So as you can see right here this confirms that Aizen wanted to lose because he felt he was too powerful at this point, and the Hogyoku felt that losing is what Aizen would've wanted. If Aizen truly wanted to win the Hogyoku would've given an Aizen a form that surpasses the Mugetsu and in this case in a fight to where two characters are going all out I doubt very strongly Aizen would want to lose against Madara he's way past that in the chair state. This is something that usually Death Battle fans ignore because they say because Ichigo beat Aizen and because Ichigo lost to Naruto that means Madara beats Aizen which shows that they didn't even try to read or watch even if they did they will ignore this crucial fact.
3. Underestimating Aizen's illusions and overestimating Madara's illusions
Moving on to illusions a lot or people seem to downplay Aizen's illusions and give Madara the biggest highball. Like I looked up this one doc about Madara VS Aizen and the person who said Madara wins stats that Aizen's illusions have weaknesses that genjutsu in Naruto doesn't. Which is totally BS. Going of that guy's logic that means Hiei can't resist Sasuke's genjutsu techniques. First of all Madara may be stronger than Aizen and with higher power means he can tell if he's about to be under an illusion but Aizen's Kyoka Suigetsu has been able to put someone like Yhwach under Kyoka Suigetsu (And I believe that Yhwach and he's the guy who can see in EVERY future and yet still couldn't resist Aizen's Kyoka Suigetsu, so yeah regardless if your stronger or weaker than Aizen, Kyoka Suigetsu is nearly unstoppable like not even people who resisted powerful illusion based attacks is completely vulnerable to it, so Madara (somehow) having stronger illusions means jack shit if your opponent has placed his illusions on people far stronger than himself before. First of all we know that both Madara and Aizen are the most powerful illusion users in their series however Aizen completely takes this with no contests as he has far superior illusion techniques than Madara. Most people who think that Madara wins often say that Madara has better illusions however their reasoning behind this all is stupid, they treat Kyoka Suigetsu as if it's flawed and can easily be resisted because it works like Genjutsu, and not to mention that Aizen has no answer to Sharingan techniques or even Infinite Tsukuyomi. But the problem with is that one Aizen did resist an illusion before without using Kyoka Suigetsu and two Kyoka Suigetsu isn't a simple illusion like visual prowess, plus genjutsu has it's flaws as people like Deidara and Danzo proved in their fight's against Sasuke, two Infinite Tsukuyomi doesn't work on ghost/soul like beings as shown with the reanimated shinobi like the previous Hokages, it only works on humans and people who are alive and considering that Bleach mostly has soul and ghost based characters there's no way Infinite Tsukuyomi would do jack on Aizen because he is a soul based character, but for the sake of argument let's say it does work on Aizen, the Hogyoku would just simply snap him out of it and before you guys bring up the fact he was sealed before again as I said before that was Aizen is more powerful than the Hogyoku in the Blood Year War arc thanks to the chair, not to mention he again counters with Kyoka Suigetsu as it worked on Yhwach who is FAR stronger than Madara with his Infinite Tsukuyomi, and three it's not like it matters because Aizen can put Madara under his hypnosis before Madara even thought of using his genjutsu techniques, so if you put Madara and Aizen in character, Aizen would more than likely put Madara under Kyoka Suigetsu, instantly before he could even use genjutsu like Infinite Tsukuyomi that's just how Aizen fights cause despite their intelligence, Madara is very arrogant more arrogant than Aizen like he would rather test Aizen to see what he could do than put him under any genjutsu his personality is kinda like Vegeta and Bakugo combined as like them Madara wants to fight his opponents at there very best and see what they can do as shown when he fought Might Guy, even if Madara was completely bloodlust it won't save him from being under Kyoka Suigetsu, plus pre-war arc all Aizen has to do is pull out his sword and during war arc all Madara has to do is simply look at Aizen. Like I love Madara more than Aizen and he has his own intelligence but there is no way that he would know that he's been hit by Kyoka Suigetsu, like Yhwach had the All Mighty which let's him see every possible future and he still got hit by Kyoka Suigetsu without even knowing about it and Aizen didn't do anything.
Like all the characters who have resisted illusions STILL have never been able to know that they got hit by Kyoka Suigetsu. Now you can argue if Aizen looks at Madara's eyes he's immediately under a genjutsu however I would also argue that Aizen would still resist as we've seen in Naruto several characters while they didn't know it instantly they have been shown to resist once they found out they resist it. It's not like Kyoka Suigetsu which controls all 5 or even more of your senses it does however place you in a perspective where it looks real but it's not but the thing is that most genjutsu can be resisted once you suspect something but with Kyoka Suigetsu it not only shows you an illusion but it completely alters you're perspective of what's real and what isn't it makes it seem like your winning so you don't suspect anything when in reality you are making a fool out of yourself. So Madara can literally have Aizen under a genjutsu and Aizen can pretend like he fell for it but in reality Aizen would just simply be acting like he fell for it because he knows that Madara is under his illusion WAY before Madara used the genjutsu, he's done this before when he fought Shinji who put him under hypnosis but the entire time Aizen has him under his. Kyoka Suigetsu can even last up to 100 years as Aizen used it Visoreds and even a century later they were still under his hypnosis. Very clearly Aizen has far superior illusion techniques but despite that Death Battle fans and Naruto fans still completely ignore this and still hang on to the claim that Madara has superior illusions which he clearly does not. Obviously Death Battle is going to say Madara has superior illusions anyway and HILARIOUSLY downplay Aizen's illusions, especially Kyoka Suigetsu knowing them that's exactly what will happen and I wouldn't be surprised if they do.
4. Dishonest claims of their feats saying Madara has advantages in strength, speed, durability, power, and stats over Aizen
The last thing that people will Guarantee do is downplay Aizen and wank Madara saying he's stronger, faster, and more durable. So let's start things off with speed. People for some odd reason say that Madara is faster than Aizen which is completely false. At least a Death Battle said that Ichigo is faster than Naruto (although just barely) so they'll likely say that Aizen is faster than Madara, that's one of the things I do believe ScrewAttack will get right. So let's do some calculations show who truly does take the speed advantage. Madara can keep up with other top tier ninjas like Naruto and Sasuke. Naruto has been able to keep up and dodge an attack from the Third Raikage in his base form.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:BMWFanboy/Naruto_Dodges_Third_Raikage
Based on the calculations Naruto most' ever reacted around more than Mach 3777. While in his Nine Tails Chakra Mode he was able to dodge an attack from the Fourth Raikage.
https://character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Webcamparrot/KCM_Naruto_reacts_to_A_the_4th
Based on this Naruto should be 72x faster than Ay. Now technically he should be Mach 20,644 since it's lightning speed however the data book says that the Raikage is the speed of light.
Now that's technically a statement and not actually proven but we can back this feat up considering Naruto did dodge a light speed laser from Madara's light fang. So we can take this to face value and say that Naruto is 72x light speed. Madara can keep up with Naruto especially after he got the second Rinnegan. Now for Aizen. Aizen scales to Toshiro who is fast enough to dodge Shinso.
According to calculations by Bleach-Grimmjow he must've reached to around 191x the speed of light. Aizen is also comparable to Ichigo who was fast enough to deflect lasers which according to Bleach-Grimmjow means Ichigo reacted to 217x the speed of light. That's MUCH faster than Naruto dodging the Raikage, so you guys can clearly see here that Aizen blitz Madara not the other way around. Now let's move on to attack potency and durability while. Madara was able to survive Naruto's lava Rasen-Shuriken that cut Obito's God Tree down. There are some calculations that put him at 93 zettatons of TNT. Madara should be comparable to Naruto and Sasuke. Naruto survived an attack that sliced the moon in half.
https://community.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Might_Path/Toneri_Splits_the_Moon_Calc
Based on the calculations here this attack is well over 697 zettatons of TNT. Toneri (who was responsible for the moon slice feat) also moved the moon towards Earth.
https://community.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Might_Path/Toneri_Moves_the_Moon_Calc
Based on the calculations those calculations are well over 244 yottatons of TNT. On top of that Naruto and Sasuke were able to make a moon that was far larger than their own moon (according to Kakashi) it was even able to break apart Kaguya's Truth Seeking Orb that she made.
According to calculations made by SethTheProgramer the maximum power output is more than 1,434 yottatons of TNT. If we take half of it sense it's two people performing this feat the power output would be literally 717 yottatons of TNT, if you say Naruto and Sasuke have 1/4 because Hagoromo gave him each half of his chakra and that him and Hamura created a similar feat than the power output would be 35 yottatons of TNT, however considering Naruto and Sasuke's moon was MUCH larger than Hagoromo and Hamura's I can argue that there are above that calc so I can say that 717 yottatons to 1,434 yottatons is consist enough. Madara fought on par with Naruto and Sasuke and possesses the same powers as them. Now Madara doesn't scale to Kaguya due to her being roughly below her as stated by Naruto and Sasuke so he should roughly be below this.
However for arguments sake let's say he's roughly compared to her in battle. Now Kaguya is powerful enough to destroy her own dimension.
Kaguya's dimensions at their highest if you want to high ball are star level at best which would mean that theoretically Six Paths characters could be star level as Kaguya's dimension has a star on it. Moving on to Aizen, he should be comparable to Ichigo. Hallow Ichigo can destroy who can destroy the Gates of Hell in the Hell Verse movie which then spread access the world. People will consider this none canon however it is canon because the author made a one-shot manga to it. On top of that Yhwach can left Wandenreich which calculations I found were around 13 yottatons of TNT. Yhwach is likely even higher than tha considering Yhwach's energy was leaking from the earth, Soul Society, and many more. Aizen is also comparable to Yamamoto who was able to drain all Soul Society's water.
Soul Society should be comparable to the size of the earth. Yamamoto is so powerful he was going to end up burning Soul Society just by existing.
Aizen in the war arc should be just as strong if not stronger than Ichigo. Fullbring Shinigami Ichigo was able to destroy a pocket dimension which houses stars.
Looking at the calculations Ichigo's maximum output theoretically is 2,468 tenatons of TNT. Now that's insane. That's how strong Aizen should be in comparison to Ichigo. Now in Naruto VS Ichigo, ScrewAttack here said Naruto and Ichigo aren't planet busters and they don't scale to Kaguya and Yhwach, well as I just proved here it's the complete opposite. They will say the same thing with Madara and Aizen and while I do agree they are below Kaguya and Yhwach at the very least they should be comparable relatively in scaling. This is something fans with downplay for both sides, but considered Yhwach is more powerful than Kaguya in raw power there's no reason to say it can happen with Aizen and Madara.
Conclusion
And thus that includes the debunk, Aizen claps Madara in almost every category possible, including strength, speed, durability, stats, hax, superior intelligence, experience, immortality, healing factor, and far better spiritual energy and illusion powers. Now consistently speaking here Madara is stronger than Aizen but because Aizen can adapt and get far stronger than Madara, strength is irrelevant as Aizen soul simply take away that advantage. There is no way Madara could even land a hit on Aizen, even if he SOMEHOW resisted Kyoka Suigetsu the results will not change Aizen still has far more up his sleeve and has multiple options to end Madara whenever he wanted. So regardless of Kyoka Suigetsu or Hogyoku or whatever Madara is still outclassed here. Obviously Death Battle doesn't see it because their going to downplay the shit out of Aizen and make Madara win, I can see them doing it from a mile away. I won't be surprised if they make Madara win because I'm gonna be like (in a sarcastic voice) "Gee I wonder why." Because I already know why, based on past experience on Death Battle. I would be surprised if they make Aizen win. In all honesty despite this I hope they prove me wrong. ScrewAttack please prove me wrong PLEASE get this outcome correct like you did with Zuko VS Shoto Todoroki and Red Hood VS Winter Solider, do that I won't debunk you. Luckily they have been improving recently so I have faith they'll get this outcome correct. But until than I'm standing by everything I said. That's all for today thank you so much for reading and I will see you all next time. Peace.