Horayos

2) RELYING ON BEIS DIN

(a) (Mishnah): If an individual transgressed b'Shogeg according to Beis Din...

(b) Question: The Mishnah should say 'If an individual transgressed according to Beis Din' - why must it say 'b'Shogeg'?

(c) Version #1 - Answer #1 (Rava): 'B'Shogeg' - this is when Beis Din permitted Chelev (forbidden fats), and an individual (wanted to eat other meat and) mistakenly ate Chelev; 1. 'According to Beis Din' - this is simply relying on Beis Din (he knowingly ate Chelev).

(d) Version #2 - Answer #1 (Rava): He is exempt only if his mistake was relying on Beis Din (he knowingly ate Chelev);

1. If he mistakenly ate Chelev, he is liable.

(e) Rami bar Chama was unsure of this law.

1. Question (Rami bar Chama): If Beis Din permitted Chelev, and an individual mistakenly ate Chelev - what is the law?

2. Version #1 - Answer (Rava): We learn from extra words in the Mishnah - it says, 'If an individual transgressed *b'Shogeg, according to Beis Din*'; i. This includes this case (he is exempt).

3. Rejection: Perhaps this teaches that he is exempt only when his mistake was relying on Beis Din (he knowingly ate Chelev), but if he mistakenly ate Chelev, he is liable!

4. Version #2 - Answer (Rava): We learn from extra words in the Mishnah - it says, 'If an individual transgressed *b'Shogeg, according to Beis Din*'; i. This teaches that he is exempt only when his mistake was relying on Beis Din (he knowingly ate Chelev), but if he mistakenly ate Chelev, he is liable!

(End of Version #2)

5. Rejection: Perhaps it teaches that he is exempt in either case, whether he mistakenly ate or relied on Beis Din.

(f) Other Amora'im argued according to the two versions of Rava.

POINT BY POINT SUMMARY - Horayos, Daf 2

1. (Rav): If Beis Din permitted Chelev, and Reuven mistakenly ate Chelev, he is exempt;

2. (R. Yochanan): He is liable.

(g) Question (against R. Yochanan - Beraisa): "*From* the common people" - this excludes a Mumar;

1. R. Shimon ben Yosi says, "(If the Nasi... transgresses one of the Mitzvos...) that one may not do, b'Shogeg, and is guilty. Or if he finds out" - one who would not have sinned knowingly brings a Korban, one who would have sinned knowingly does not bring a Korban;

2. No other verse is needed to exclude a Mumar! (This refutes R. Yochanan - since Beis Din permitted it, Reuven would have eaten it even had he known that it is Chelev!) (h) Answer (Rav Papa): Since Beis Din would have retracted had they realized their mistake (and then Reuven would not have eaten knowingly), this is considered that he would not have eaten it knowingly.

(i) (Rava): Rav admits that Reuven is not counted towards a majority (of Yisrael) that transgressed according to Beis Din.

(j) Question: Why is this?

(k) Answer: "Bi'Shgagah" - (the full majority) must all commit the same mistake (relying on Beis Din).

(l) (Mishnah): Whether he transgressed with Beis Din...

(m) Question: Why must the Mishnah teach three cases (transgressing with Beis Din, after Beis Din, and without Beis Din)?

1. We understand in the beginning of the Mishnah (when he is exempt) - each case is a bigger Chidush than the previous case.

2. But in the end of the Mishnah, when he is liable, each case is a smaller Chidush than the previous case, they should have been taught in the reverse order!