God is an adaptive illusion - Your thoughts please!

@drDevil ***Jesus said that “those who have seen me have seen the Father.” Jesus did not follow religion…He condemned it along with the religious rulers. If Jesus is like the Father, then God Himself is against religion. I am not trying to prove the improvable. I also understand the desire for religion to be done away with. John Lennon’s song “Imagine” used to be one of my favorites. The problem is that there IS a God & there IS a devil. God is in heaven & Satan is the god of this earth. That’s it. There is no Allah or Achilles or Beal etc. Satan will always try to tempt man into turning away from God. Satan doesn’t care if you worship a false god because he created them. Man has a desire to be connected with God. Man’s spirit is dead (separated from God) because of sin but your spirit CAN be alive again (connected to God.) Man buids idols to worship, because man has a hard time believing in something he can not see. Man also has a desire to achieve greatness (by his own measure) & to be worshiped by others. Look how many kids these days want to be celebrities, sports figures, rock stars rather than provide a service to others like doctors, firefighters & homemakers etc. I have nothing to gain by trying to convert you. I am not a Jehovah witness or Mormon who is trying to “earn” his way into heaven. My only wish is to share the good news because I have studied Bible prophecy and I see that the Old Testament prophecies HAVE come true and the New Testament prophecies ARE being fulfilled right now!!!

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cont> I totally believe that there is tribulation coming. It will be very, very bad for those left behind. I truly fear for those who deny Gods protection…and turn their backs on Jesus who paid the price for YOU to be included in the rapture. When I learn about outer dimensions and parallel universes, I believe more, and more that there is a plausible way for all Christians (who have faith in God) to simply go missing one day. The nations around Israel are gearing up for war. Israel will stand alone…just like it has been prophesized. The USA has always been an ally to Israel but not with our current administration. Even Israel, knows that they are alone…they have no one on their side (no true allies…except God.) The Jews were prophesized to be scattered then return back to their homeland that God promised to them. That is the only reason for the fighting, because Satan does not want there to be a sovereign nation for God’s people to call home. No one even wanted Israel until God developed it through the Jews. Israel became a nation once again in 1947 & God helped the Jews keep their land in the six day war. Can you believe, the tiny nation of religious people defeated ALL the nations around them in only six days? Nations study war strategies & develop military plans by learning how victories have been achieved, however the six day war was full of miracles (or coincidences) that no one studies that war. God will help the Jews (again) to keep their land during this next war. The war of Ezekiel is fast approaching…it is one of the few prophecies from the Old Testament that have not been fulfilled yet. Russia, Iran & China are working together just like the Bible said they would. They will be defeated. Military Muslims will be defeated and everyone will realize that Allah was NOT behind them in defeating Israel.

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cont.> You see, most people (who are blind to God) simply want to remove religion so that man can gain a so-called utopian world. By removing God…do you think that we will all be able to get along? Will eugenics play a role in perfection? Who will be in charge of this perfect nation or world order? Will poverty still exists? Will there be different classes of people? The haves vs the have nots? Look at the evil class rulers or today. The elites running the banks and controlling the “puppet presidents.” Study the Masons, the Rothschilds, the Rockerfellers. Study who & what is behind the Bilderburg secret meetings. My favorite is the Fabian Society. Their intent is to mold the world to their hearts desire. It is the powerful elite (controlled by Satan) who would have us squabbling over small, right and wrong issues, fighting amongst ourselves in religion and politics, living in fear about everything & believing that global warming is a threat to mankind. The progressives are indoctrinating our children through government run school systems into “feeling bad” for existing and creating a carbon footprint. It is no wonder will are killing our children through abortion & our children are killing themselves. Make no mistake there is a devil & he is gaining power to “attempt” to control mankind. Will there be another holocaust? Will you be part of the controlling class or part of the controlled class? Man will wish that there was a God. Right now we live in the age of grace. The world has seen many different ages. This is the age, Jesus builds the church (His church, the one and only true church of Christ) however, this age is coming to a fast end (closure.)

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cont.> If you seek love, it points to Christ. If you seek truth, it points to Christ. If you seek forgiveness, it points to Christ. Man can not achieve what John Lennon imagined because there really is a God. One true God and one evil God of this world. We serve one, by accepting Jesus, we serve the other one by denying him. Even if you chose not to believe, you serve Satan. Haven’t you ever had a supernatural experience? Don’t you believe in spirits (or ghost?) Most atheist do believe in ghost but they deny God as a spirit. God says man was created in 3 parts. He IS a spirit, he HAS a soul & he HAS a body. Christians are supposed to be spirit ruled however, much of the church world is like the natural world which is body (flesh) ruled, meaning ruled by their 5 senses only. God Bless you, now I’m going to celebrate Easter and rejoice because my living God died for my sins (He spent 3 days in hell) and He rose again to offer up His blood as the eternal sacrifice for man. I accept His free gift. He took the keys (of hell & death) from Satan. He has given me the keys to His kingdom. I rejoice because Gods plan for me is good (better than I could have ever dream for, on my own.) He has given (transferred) me authority to use His name and the power of His might to accomplish His will for me while I am still here on earth. Glory to God! I hope you keep in touch. Thank you for welcoming me to your chat. You seem to be an intellectual person who wont be offended at anything I have said...I appreciate that about you.

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@newrageguru And yet God lives on. Peace :-)

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@Hardy_Boyz I must say I am a bit disappointed that you didn't answer me my question about why you think that quantum mechanics was created by God. I think this is vital to me understanding your position. Could be please return to this topic? I really want to know what makes you think this.

Anyway, you brought up a set of interesting and concerning topics. I think war is something that is not to spoken lightly of or glorified. Both sides will lose tremendously and the pain and suffering violence that it create is not worth the outcome. I am not a specialist on the Israel-Palestinian conflict, but I do know that Israel always had a technological and financial advantage. Relating the outcome of a conflict to a God's support is a futile claim that never can be backed up. And I am sure that on both sides lives were lost and the family of the dead will always have to live with the pain of missing them in their lives. I hope that it never comes to a new war again. The suffering is not worth it.

For your other questions:

"By removing God…do you think that we will all be able to get along?" No, not if we do not understand the function of God and replace it with (preferably) something better. Religion exists for a reason, understanding this reason will allow us to grow as a society.

"Will eugenics play a role in perfection?" I am not sure where this comes from, but you have me worried. Why do you want to talk about this? I think that our strongest point is our adaptation abilities. Our diversity shows that we are highly adaptable to the current demands of the world in which we live, making us extremely successful...and destructive...as a species. Diversity is a result of our success. Decrease diversity, you will negatively affect one of our most vital survival traits.

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"Who will be in charge of this perfect nation or world order?" Nobody. We will not need a leader if everybody behaves. If all people would just respect and help each other in daily life, without there being greed, fear and jealousy, there would be no need for an enforcing class. My opinion is that everybody is vital for survival, no matter your race, characteristics (intelligence, beauty, charisma, creativity, gender), position in society or age. I know this sounds like a utopia, and will probably not be possible because it will require total VOLUNTARY cooperation of all people existing.

Will poverty still exists? In such a world as I described above? It depends what you think is poverty. Rich countries will get poorer, poor countries will get richer. As long as everybody has food, a roof over their head, work and amusement, I would think you have a pretty decent life. However, I realize that the rich would probably define this as poor, and the poor would define this as rich.

"Will there be different classes of people? The haves vs the have nots? Look at the evil class rulers or today." First of all. Nobody is pure evil or pure good. We all have different sides. Evil class rulers is a gross oversimplification.People with too much power have no control of peers over their decisions and actions any more because their peers are afraid of the consequences of their critique. This makes it easier to fall prey to greed. There will always be classes of people as a consequence of our diversity. Hell, whenever I go outside and talk to people that live completely different lives than me I feel like an alien and I am sure that they think I am one. This makes me different, but not inferior or superior to them. If we respect these differences without fear we can work and live together without many of the problems that there are now. And since these problems cost money and time, I am sure this would end up in a better production and more fun for us all. LOL

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@Hardy_Boyz Happy Easter to you to! Although I don't celebrate it in the same way as you do... :)

Btw I am anything but an intellectual. For some reason I always interpret this as being an elitist, arrogant, know-it-all asshole. LOL

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What advantage is there in having religion. Hmmmmm... NONE! Religion is inherently dogmatic, xenophobic, bigoted, racist and from a personal belief a blockage to ones true potential, as going through a man god to reach our innate higher loving ability seems a bit round-about to me. One of the predominate evils in the world is the belief that one’s god is superior to another or realer than someone else’s. Men have waged violent and bloody massacres, completely destroyed cultures and turned to incredible evil to prove and convert others to their “one true god.” This god is usually based on ancient scripture from superstitious peoples with little to no knowledge of the scientific workings of the universe and handed down by word of mouth before it is eventually written down. We do have a desire to place a god outside of our selves, to accept others faith in this belief as our own and it is usually based on fear of the unknown and that unknown is usually associated with death. Believe in an "adaptive illusion" go to heaven, don’t believe and we will wipe you of the face of eternity in our minds rather than have you tell us we might be wrong. Ego based, nasty, feel good about yourself while running others down, business. After all the one absolute is that no one knows what happens when we die... and that’s a hard truth to face. But there is a higher truth. It’s called love without compromise.

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@Hardy_Boyz ...this is all religion...and the worst kind, no matter how you butter it up. You pertain to believe because it is written in a book! You believe things because you wish to see them that way. You believe things because others like you (many others) explain this stuff so they can control with fear and ego. I can say anything and you will say, God or Devil or original sin because you can see anything you want within the contradictory nature that is the bible. You will even find untruths in simple truths, for instance: God and the Devil are not separate...they were created by God, the devil belongs to god. Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The first line in the book! It is all god... I Am-Christ-Lord.

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@drDevil - You are right on track!

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@Hardy_Boyz Bless your heart, you throw a lot at us, too much. It takes a lot of time to sift through everything you are saying.

Now, listen. I am a Christian, who has spent years of Bible study. That is where my faith comes from. Perhaps you have heard these words from some pius people around you, well meaning people.

"I believe the Bible from cover to cover!"

That can't be.

The person who says that either does not know the Bible or his own personality.

I am reminded of the one farmer, who showed up for church.

"Shall I preach?" the minister asked.

"Go ahead, that's what I came for,"

After two hours the preacher stopped, and asked, "How was it?"

"Well," answered the farmer, "When I go out to feed my pig, I don't dump the whole load on him!"

"Well, your words have their place, yes. When someone comes off the streets and enters your church, have at it with your message.

Set up a tent and invite us.

Look, there are a lot of sincere, intelligent people here who have their views.

But I am reminded of something Alfred Tennyson said, "There is more faith in honest doubt, believe me, than in half the creeds."

Now, I am not for combining the world's religion into something new, into some kind of sick syncretism.

But there are people who have their own private beliefe. We need to respect them. Some are such a delight, friends of mine.

Remember, if you love, people will listen.

I thank you for your youthful enthusaism.

See you.

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@drDevil I apologize for not making myself clear regarding your question (I didn’t think you really wanted an answer for that specific question.) God never said that He created quantum mechanics specifically. His word does not translate the technical words used in today’s languages, He did however, demonstrate power & authority over physical laws. His power was not limited to our study of science. His word shows us that He does not operate under the same illusions of time and matter. His word is a “living word.” What does that mean? As we develop, so does His word. It makes sense the more you read it. Many people (including well meaning pastors) don’t spend time reading it (as is evident in their sermons.) Many Christians also, have never received the Holy Spirit (as promised by Christ) to live within them, helping our understanding and making Gods word come alive. Quantum physics are available to everyone just as faith is available to everyone. Everyone has faith on some level. If you sit on a chair you have faith that the chair will support you. Your faith alone (without God) will only get you so far. Jesus said the works that He did we will do…in His name. Raising the dead was not limited to Christ, many have & will continue to do so by prayer & believing in God. Walking on water was not only done by Jesus (Peter did it too.) We have power (you and I alike, with or without God.) Our words produce life or death. If I said I love you…that would produce life in you. Look at people who talk to plants…it produces life in them. If I said something negative to you, that would produce death (perhaps on a microscopic level depending on how you received it.) Negative words take on a life-form. We are living in a negative world despite your ideas of tranquility.

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Cont>Things are getting worse even though good intended people are trying to make a difference. I look and pay attention to the leaders (people who are in charge.) I read the news. “People see patterns where there are no patterns” is a state of mind however, history certainly repeats itself. I see patterns in peoples relationships. Some people are doomed to keep falling for the same kind of psychopathic people they just fell “out” of love with. God can not be seen by the natural eye or mind. Because natural man is spiritually dead. His soul is living & but he is ruled by his 5 senses. The natural man (or woman) can not see the things of Christ. I see God and hear His voice, He is more than an adaptive illusion. Further, God said through His word, that we shall pray in an unknown tongue and we SHALL prophesy. So, for the millions of people who have no idea of what is coming next in their life, my spirit is intone and I am rarely surprised. If you have not been born again, then the spirit of God can only try to guide you from the outside. Ordinary people believe they have a sixth sense. Sometimes you just KNOW not to go down that dark alley. People mistake it for a “feeling” but it is the spirit of God trying to direct you. Most people secretly know weather a relationship or job will work out before-hand. When I got filled with the Holy Spirit, He immediately taught me about governments & politicians. I never took interest in these things before. He showed me why I should NOT vote for Obama, and yet Obama was exactly the type of good talker I would have voted for. He showed me what age we are living in by connecting bible prophecy to current events. I do not wish for war, I pray for peace. I pray for Muslims & Atheist & Buddhist etc. The Holy Spirit is holding back the Antichrist but he will be revealed. Gods word will happen despite our wishes.

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@Hardy_Boyz Thank you for your explanation. No worries, I do not have the usual negative attitude towards belief that most modern day atheists have. I am not an atheist. I do not belief there is no God. I belief that I will never have enough information to ever make the decision to belief or not belief in a God. Most people will find this stance extremely uncomfortable because it doesn't offer stability, but I enjoy observing without passing judgement. I am a scientist for a reason. :)

Regarding relativity and God. If I understand you correctly, you are arguing that God is just aware of quantum mechanics and knows how to use them for his purposes. And we can learn to perform this same 'trick'. You do realize that this implies that God is not superior and might simply be created by our belief in him using this same quantum principle. Why should I treat him as a God if that is the case?

You get this knowledge about God from what is written in the bible. The bible is written by men. How do you know that they interpreted God's word, and interpreted it correctly? In my family there is schizophrenia. My uncle is convinced that aliens from another dimension are talking to him and trying to drive him insane. Before this illusion, he believed God was talking to him. A cousin twice removed beliefs the devil is talking to him, ordering him to do horrible stuff. How do you know what you think and hear is from God and not resulting from a process gone wrong in your brain? What you perception tells you might not stroke with reality. What if the people writing down the bible were schizophrenic? Or simply had a good fantasy and liked to spice up the story of a normal man that liked to do good instead of waging endless wars? The problem is that taking the bible too literally might be dangerous because you are not sure about the reliability of its source. This is true for most historical texts.

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@Hardy_Boyz I find it interesting that you talk about a 'sixth' sense. I have done a lot of research to visual, auditory and tactile perception. You would be surprised how much information you pick up without you being aware of. At an early processing level your filter out some information to process further and become actively aware off, but only superficially process the rest of the information coming in. The brain's capacity doesn't allow you to process every sensory information bit coming in. This sixth sense might simply be activation of information that was not given preference for processing and so is below threshold to become aware, but is still salient enough to rise above normal base line level of activity in your brain. Spread of activity throughout your brain will allow these elevated levels to influence your behaviour, albeit unconsciously. This has nothing to do with an external force guiding you, but is simply an side effect of how your perceptual and action systems in the brain work. I have seen the same sort of reactions in laboratory settings.

You talk about God and the Holy Spirit as if they are persons talking to you. You really hear and see them? Or is there a medium in between? Could you tell me more about this? Does this occur on a daily basis?

How is the Holy Spirit holding back the Antichrist? And you talk of the Antichrist as being a he? How do you know he is a he?

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I hope you don't mind if I interject here @drDevil

I admire your faith @Hardy_Boyz . I do not have the capacity to explain my faith in such wonderful detail as you, but I would like to comment on your second part because I feel your explanation is the cause for concern with all religions.

You see my belief is that God created man, and when he created man he created us with free will and the knowledge to live our lives individually. It has countless tales in the bible where God guides us, but in the end, we either make a good choice, or a bad choice, based off our own free will. When you state the holy spirit filled you with a knowledge of government and politics which guided you to NOT vote for Obama, then you deny the responsibility humans have for their own actions. You were guided by the experiences you have had coupled with the knowledge you have attained in learning and made an informed decision on your candidate, just as I took my experiences and 5 years of political science study at a university and made an informed decision to vote for Obama.

I am not in any way trying to insult you, I have respect for you taking the time to share with us your beliefs. But the line between faith and the atrocities commited in the name of faith is thin and should be acknowledged as what they are, human misinterpretation that we ourselves are a holy vessel. We are not the mind of god, we are his creation, to share this earth with all that lives. My faith in God is that he has faith in me, to live my life in the way my faith guides, and to take responsibility for the actions and decisions I make.

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Would anybody mind if i asked a quick sub-question? No? Thought not.

Why do you think religion was created?

Now i understand somebody is going to say messages from god or communication with god or something, but still this has always been a large question for me and i have always wished to know the anwser.

Sorry if this might offend anyone, but my personal veiw is that religion is a method of pyschological control. Religion has the power to control individuals one a much more philosophical level unlike any emotion or bioloigical methods. How can you be sure that the bibble and any other holy writings were written by the right person from your faith? Is it not possible that a power hungry indiviual had wrote this to explain things from the oringal link and post about the 'Adaptive Illusion' reserach? Without science there was no explanation for this, until this research was published. Imagine hundreds of years ago, people didnt know how to explain anything aroudn them, one person created a relgion, a series of explanations for there imaginations in order to have followers carry out there every order.

@drDevil As the original poster i am asking you, does the reserach you have presented help you explain religions origin? You belive it is a series of this lack of understanding which leads to people banding together, smilar to the alliance formed in the emergance of a common enemy?

@Hardy_Boyz And you, you appear to be one of the most faith Christians on Wattpad, back up with all of these bible quotes. Before you throw bible quotes at me, is there any possibility that the bible has been written by the wrong person? How can you be 100% sure that they have not written a work of fiction off the top their head to explain the unexplained?

My final point is that Religion is power. In 15th centry Europe the Catholic church was the most power group in the world, Kings, Countrys and entire population's had to abide by their rule. Is this not absolute power?

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This is going to sound extremely nerdy, no lifey and off topic, but i feel it does provide and another way of explaining my pervious point.

In the video game series 'Halo' (Bare with me) several alien speices were boned together through the bringing of a relgion, 'The Great Journey'. This allowed the leaders who mastermined the whole organisation complete control. It was only when they got to power hungry was it that some disscovered the Great Journey was a lie. This is an example of the wrong people passing the message. This is very possible.

L.Ron Hubbard the creator of Scientology was a mastermind at this. He created a large support base and a wealthy pocket of millions, through his lies. Many follow him today, calling him a god amongst men. Again he is the wrong person to pass the message.

The Taliban in Afghanistan controlled the entire counrty through there veiws on there relgions, enforcing it to there own ends. Power through relgion is limitless.

Today's more popular relgions could have similar origin's? Only they have evolved, into something without a sole leader. This is only a theroy but what evidence does anyone have that there relgion was written by the right person?

This adaptive illison reserach could explain faith on a very basic level, a level of a lack of understanding. As a child when you asked how does santa get aroudn the world, you are told magic and you belive it, giving your parents power over your behavouir in lure of a yearly reward. This is a childs lack of understanding, similar to the intelligence of long ago civilisations that thought they understood through imagination.

(LoL post 69)

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@TheRobot To answer your first question: I believe that a combination of the aforementioned cognitive bias and the inability of science at that time to explain a range of uncontrollable and thus fearsome events lead to the creation of religion. It subsequently was hijacked by charismatic and powerful individuals as an excellent method to control the masses (either in a positive or negative way). Fear of the unexplainable could be used to form, control and change society to perform better and become less chaotic. But it also could be used to expand and become richer by providing the ultimate justification for directed violence. So I agree with @TerryP, it had both its benefits and drawbacks, depending on the people in control. This is my personal opinion and not backed up by research (I think). This is also basically what you are trying to explain, I think. lol

What I am particularly interested in is why religion is so successful compared to other group forming. This is why the link to social hierarchies is interesting; it would explain at a very basic level why religion bonds better than a government elected by the people.

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@drDevil Thank you for responding. Yes it does have it's benifits but to what extent are these benifits? As far as i'm aware Buddism is the only relgion without blood on its hands.

Relgion is an extremly sucessful group, but then again so were the Nazi's(Again no offence intended). Through clever writings and speechs then shifted Germany's problems to blame Jews. If we strip away this basic pricipal isn't christianity stripping away problems and loading them on the devil? (Dont attack me for comparing Christians and Nazi's, i mean no offence they are not similar i know that). Is this method of scapegoating that sucessful? When humans are children and they do something wrong they try to shift the blame, "It was Tommy, he made me do it!, It wasn't me, I was caught up in the moment". Political parties are not allowed to scapegoat, this allows the masses to blame them directly for problems. Relgion shifts it away from there leaders to there fabricated villians. Creating a false alliance against a common enemy through a fabricated war with good and evil.

Being frightend by the unkown is natural, only during the times of relgious creation rather than being fearful children they were fearful civilisations. Image if we went back in time in a plane and flew over a mediveal town. People would scream, run for the hills, cry demon because they wouldnt understand it was a plane and how it flew. By crying demon or black magic they are scapegoating there misunderstandings.

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Contuined: Charles I (I think?) was arrested after the English civil war. Faced with court he declared the divine right of kings, a relgious right that as King he was all powerful. He scapegoated his reasoning to God, that he was right in gods veiw therefore should be set free.

Henry VIII changed the entire church of England just to get a divorce, Relgion provides a handy excuse ranther then responsibility.

Yes relgion does provid it's beniftis, my eariler point of Buhddism is all about achiveing inner peace. Through worldly peace to achive enlightment.

Again please dont be offened by my Nazi comparison anyone, i hate having to bring up the horrors of that period.

The Adaptivity of the Illusion varies on the situation, misunderstanding is a weakness and a fear. Knowledge conquers fear, the conquearer controls everything of the fear. But who controls the Knowledge? Hitler? L. Ron Hubbard? The Prohept Of Truth? How do we know who ever wrote the bible was a good person? They could have written it to create good people, most probably but there personal veiws would have been seen alot through it.

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@nikayaya You bring up a interesting point. How much is freedom of thought and action protected within religion? If it truly is based on a parent-child relationship, the concept of free will is completely unimportant. Although that depends on the sort of relationship you envisage between the father/mother and the child.

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@TheRobot This is exactly why I think understanding the evolutionary function of religion is vital. A lot of us evidently find great comfort in religion. But the world would be a much nicer place if we can think of a substitute that is less prone to abuse for personal purposes.

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@drDevil Relgion claims to help overcome personal evil, but what do you do if the creator is suffering from a personal evil?

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